Baptism & The Question Of Water Being Used

[Seated]

Originally Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 9:56 am Post subject: Can anyone explain this to me?

In every account where we read about the Baptism that Jesus was to do, I find that there is never any mention of water being used, only "Holy Spirit and Fire," or simply "Holy Spirit."

Then again when we read in the account in Acts 2 that speaks about the first Baptism done by Jesus, at Pentecost, we see again no mention of any water being used at that time.

Can anyone explain to me why that was?

Seated

[WiseButPoorOldMan (Ecclesiastes 9:13-16)]

Hi Seated:

Welcome to the LWF Discussion Board!

Your question is an interesing one, which takes me back to the words of Jesus at John 3:5 saying:

"...Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

In the above verse, a curious mind could ask: was Jesus talking about a literal "water" baptism or perhaps something else, when speaking of being "born of water?"

As you know "Seated," the Watchtower Society currently teaches the expression "born of water" refers to the literal water baptism that a person experiences when becoming a disciple of Christ. A literal "water" baptism, as Jesus' disciples oftentimes performed and also as John the Baptist himself, also performed.

The February 1, 1982 Watchtower page 27 paragraph 13 commenting on John 3:5 specifically says:

"...the water here mentioned no doubt refers to the literal water of baptism."

However, as we look back, this viewpoint has not always been the one taught by the Watchtower Society, its original interpretation of John 3:5. For example, let's take the January 15, 1961 Watchtower page 39 paragraph 4 which says:

"One of the reasons for the misunderstanding about Christian baptism is the belief that the "water" of which Jesus spoke at John 3:5 is the water of baptism. Said Jesus: Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Those who read farther can see that this water is not the water of baptism. This water is mentioned at John 4:14 and also at Revelation 22:1, 17 as "water of life" and "life's water." In each of these instances it is not the water of baptism but is something that one is symbolically to drink. Instead of being the water of baptism it is the water of truth, the refreshing, life-giving, cleansing knowledge of God's Word. This water of truth remakes a person's disposition and opens the way to everlasting life."

So we can see, the Watchtower Society has changed their viewpoint on what the expression: "born of water" and what it means over the years.

As you have noticed I'm sure by now, we are called the "Living Waters Forum." And as such, we take the original position of the Watchtower Society, as mentioned above. We believe this "water" mentioned in John 3:5 represents "Sacred Truths," Divine Truths, "Sacred Secrets" as taught only by God's Appointed Messiah of that time, Jesus Christ himself. As such they become the "minas" that Jesus gave his disciples to do "business" with. They became valuable, like gold or silver, like money that could be deposted into a bank and which would grow with "interest" over time. Yes, first century christians were urged to grow, "increase" and "abound in accurate knowledge" of Truth, as Paul recommended. -- Luke 8:10; Luke 19:11-27; Philippians 1:10; Colossians 1:9, 10

Therefore, we believe firmly that Jesus did baptize his faithful followers, in bible truth -- or "Living Waters" as it were, just as we believe it being done even today, as we speak. Paul once drew attention to this fact at Ephesians 5:25, 26 where he said:

"Husbands, continue loving your wives, just as the Christ also loved the congregation and delivered up himself for it, that he might sanctify it, cleansing it with the bath of water by means of the word."

So it is the "bath" of the word of God, that actually cleans a person up. Therefore in this sense, it can be likened to the cleaning power of water, symbolically speaking. -- See John 15:3; John 17:17

At Matthew 3:11, 12 John the Baptist tells us the following:

"I, for my part, baptize you with water because of your repentance; but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not fit to take off. That one will baptize you people with holy spirit and with fire. His winnowing shovel is in his hand, and he will completely clean up his threshing floor, and will gather his wheat into the storehouse, but the chaff he will burn up with fire that cannot be put out."

Therefore, in the above bible text, John the Baptist shows us that Jesus' ministry would ultimately produce 2 distinct possible "baptisms" for the nation of Israel -- 2 possible baptisms for the nation, which would end in 2 distinct possibilities for their eternal future:

1) A Baptism of Spirit, which leads to everlasting life, and

2) A Baptism of Fire (which cannot be put out), which leads to everlasting destruction, for breaking God's Covenant, the Mosaic Law

So, as John pointed out, Jesus was to perform for the entire nation of Israel, either a baptism of "Spirit" resulting in everlasting life, or a baptism of "Fire," -- yes, baptism of the fire "that cannot be put out," which we know to be the fire of Gehenna. For example, Jesus point blank said the religious leaders of his time, such as the Pharisees, were headed for the "lake of fire" or Gehenna of eternal destruction themselves, for being practicers of hypocrisy and lawlessness," reminiscent of the modern Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses today and the clandestine United Nations NGO Scandal. -- Matthew 23:15, 28, 33

(For details on United Nations NGO Scandal see article entitled: "Oholah" & "Oholibah" -- Wicked Prostitute Sisters Before Jehovah!)

In addition we remember, Jesus himself showed that for one to "enter the kingdom of heavens," he would have to submit to a two (2) step procedure: a "being born of water," and "being born of spirit." -- John 3:5

Therefore, in this instance for one to be "born of water" would mean the repentant Israelite, when approached by Jesus, was favorable and responsive to the Sacred Word of Truth, as in the Sacred Secrets of the kingdom. These Sacred Truths represent the "minas" that Jesus committed to his followers, before going back to heaven. (Luke 19:11-27) This special Living "Water" that Jesus gave only to his disciples, would prove to be the primary "gift" that his disciples would offer mankind, to show Divine Favor upon this group. (Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:11) This means, Peter and other faithful followers of Jesus Christ actually submitted to a "immersion" or baptism into "Sacred Secrets" or Divine Truths of their time, as taught by Jesus. These Sacred Truths became the foundation and center of their new found belief system, as we know it today as "Christianity."

Therefore initially, Jesus' followers had to first submit to being "born of water" or of being born of Divine Truth, BEFORE God would permit them to experience the actual "baptism of the spirit" or anointing that Jesus would cause them to have at Pentecost. Thus, all who willingly accepted Divine Truths, Sacred Secrets that Jesus taught while on earth, would be in line for a "baptism of spirit," as seen at Pentecost of the first century. And, as we know, these Sacred Secrets were not, in an overall sense, ever given to the nation of Israel as a whole, as Jesus pointed out in Matthew 13:11. This is because the nation as a whole would not repent and accept the teachings of Jesus. For this, they must experience the inevitable, the promised 2nd national baptism for a disobedient nation, namely the one that John mentioned as the baptism of the "fire, that cannot be put out."

We, today know the "fire, that cannot be put out," as being the fire of Gehenna or eternal destruction. And yet we remember that many of the nation of Israel, who did not accept Jesus as Messiah, would nevertheless receive a resurrection to life again, on earth. We know this, because Jesus said that many from pagan nations would "rise up in the judgment" and condemn the people of Israel for not listening to Jesus. (Luke 11:31, 32) Which would mean, many Israelites of Jesus' day, would come back in the resurrection, but come back to a "resurrection of judgment." -- John 5:29

However, what we must keep in mind of this situation is that, a resistant Israelite, one who resisted Jesus' message while on earth, and shortly thereafter died, could possibly receive this resurrection to earthly life, as Jesus promised. But it would be a "resurrection" to "reproaches and indefinitely lasting abhorrence." (Daniel 12:2) Among this number we would include Israelites that did not faithfully keep the Mosaic Law, but had died before ever being confronted with the "Anointed" Christian Congregation's worldwide proliferation of the Sacred Secrets of the kingdom, or "good news" to the nations, as taught by Jesus. -- Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10

However we want to keep in mind that if these same Israelites, were to live on, and were to persist in their disbelief of the Divine Message, up to the year of 70 c.e., when the temple was destroyed, then they would have to experience the baptism in the "fire, that cannot be put out" -- The fire of everlasting destruction, where no resurrection would be possible for them. -- 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9

(For more information on Jesus' return in 70 c.e., please see the article entitled: The Second "Parousia" Of Christ -- Re-Examined)

Hope this helps,

yorww